The disadvantages of using Find / Replace to add links - there are a few that "got away" in the "Story" and "Title" fields, which could do with being removed. It's also not up to date - the version I based this on was last updated in November, so we've got a few months worth of stories to fit in. Eek! Mittfh 17:09, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
- 1 Chicanery
- 2 Unilateral story renaming
- 3 Recommended reading order
- 4 Uglifying categories?
- 5 As Above, So Below
- 6 Evil as prerequisite
- 7 Word Count
- 8 Whisper stories
- 9 on deletion...
- 10 Stories Page on Main Site
- 11 Key to #
- 12 Tennyo Goes to Hell & Anecdotal Antidote Apocalypse
- 13 Trials of a Warrior and Whilst Any Speaks
- 14 Charge 1 & Charge 2
- 15 North to Atlantis
Has anybody figured out the exact dates for the first part of Christmas Chicanery? I would say that Greasy & Medley were called to Delarose *probably* on December 22 -- the day when most students were leaving, and the earlier scene would be in the previous weekend, that is, 16 or 17. --Sir Lee 01:42, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
Unilateral story renaming
I just noticed that Anvildude unilaterally removed the Jade X part from the title of the jade stories. I object vehemently. If Babs Yerunkle names the stories the way she does, that is their name, and it simply is not Anvildude's place to decide their full name is anything different. Words fail me trying to describe the pretentiousness of doing so. The Authors get to name their stories and I will not stand for Anvildude usurping that right, admin or not. if this issue is not at the very least put up to a vote this wiki has seen the last of me. I haven't been this angry in years. Addiab 17:28, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
I tend to agree, partly because I think something like this needs a discussion on the forum (not here, not everyone looks at the talk pages) and partly because changing the name of a story that's already got links to it creates, at a minimum, a redirect and a lot of confusion. Also, arbitrary actions by the admin tend to have a rather bad effect on a forum or wiki. Not only do I know that from first hand experiance as a mailing list moderator, but not everyone has the same notion of what's reasonably and what's arbitrary.
Also, it isn't just Jade - there are stories that start with Tennyo:, for example.XaltatunOfAcheron 20:35, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
Hi. Uh, just passing through, but ah, he may just be following the titles from the official stories page on Crystalhall.org. (That is the official site, right?) So, don't be too angry with him. 184.108.40.206 23:15, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
Recommended reading order
This page is linked as recommended reading order, but doesn't really contain any. Sure, you will be fine following either the chronological or the release order, but in several cases for either order this is suboptimal, and in other cases over-specified and you have several options you could choose by your own preference. Maybe we could introduce another column that lists other stories that should have been read first, either because the story contains spoilers for them, or because knowledge of those events is required for full understanding and enjoyment of this story.
Enter the Chaka would just read "ideal starting point", none of the Ayla stories written years later would be listed as requirements for earlier stories (IMO it should even be the other way round, you shouldn't read about Ayla fighting the alpha hit squad until after Jade 4, but others might disagree on this so the best option would seem to be to leave it open and list neither story as requirement for the other). The Merry stories could be started at any point after First Day (or whatever Tennyo story introduced Dr Palm) until the story where she meets Sara, which would have the most recent Sara story before that point as requirement, which in turn has earlier Sara stories and various Kimba stories as requirement. Requirements should be assumed as implicitly transitive, so no need to list requirements that are also requirements of other requirements (e. g. if Jade 3 lists Duel Damsel, First Day, PMS and other problems etc. then Simple Game can just list Jade 3 and doesn't need to list Duel Damsel etc. as well)
Listing should probably be done by the short name in the first column, but without any link?
Does this seem like a good idea? Are there better suggestions? Addiab 13:29, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
Possibly, but it would take a bit of work to come up with a hybrid between timeline chronology and release chronology (especially as there are nearly 200 episodes!) - and that's likely to be controversial. The original default sort order was by story end date, as it was felt that would probably minimise spoilers. Perhaps if we just rephrase the link pointing to the page - after all, the page itself is "List of Canon Stories", and I've recently added some blurb about how you can sort by the various columns. Maybe examine the stories set simultaneously and shift the rows about as necessary to put the story with the least spoilers for future tales above the story with the most (or the earlier release first). 220.127.116.11 00:13, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
I already did some of the work here, there are a number of cases where a story ending earlier in the chronological order contains major spoilers, and a very large number of cases where that chronological order is sub-optimal. Personally I'd think that even an incomplete list would be of some help, but the table is starting to get crowded and others might not see it that way. Addiab 01:34, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
Since there were no objections beyond the amount of work (I already did much of it and intend to finish over the next week or so even if no one else helps) and potential controversy (which I believe not to be an issue when two stories are allowed to point at each other leaving the reader with the choice) I went ahead and added it so as to avoid having two places to update. Most of the Ayla stories still need to be done, particularly the interweaving with FED. Addiab 17:19, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
I can't think of a reason why the term "Category:Stories" is preferable to "Stories" as a category label in the category line. So why was this edit performed?XaltatunOfAcheron 14:51, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
As Above, So Below
Hmmm... this was (still is) listed as an April First parody. But it does seem to be canon-relevant, and Tabercil has now listed it also in the regular list. Is there any Word of God regarding its canon status? --Sir Lee 19:22, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
Evil as prerequisite
Um, Silver Linings 2 has "Evil" in the prerequisite column, and that confuses me because, 1, I'm not familiar with a story that would abbreviate to "Evil" and 2, Silver Linings 2 only has one prereq that I'm familiar with, that being Silver Linings 1. Am I being dense, or am I on to something? JohnBobMead 02:31, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
This looks like it was added by Addiab on May 30. The comment on the update is that the reader needs to know about Dr. Dad (Dr. Diabolik) for the ending to have any punch. I think it refers to "Have Yourself an Evil Little Christmas". I don't know that I agree - I think the attack on Cincinnati stands on its own very nicely. It's also mentioned as a prereq for "Crime and Chaos", if that matters. I've got no objection to your removing it.XaltatunOfAcheron 02:54, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
I would very much appreciate if people could at the very least wait a single day after raising the issue before undoing well thought additions. Also a huge amount of thought went into this column so don't remove anything unless you spent at least 10 minutes thinking through all implications (beyond the issues expanded on below there is also the issue of removing it as indirect listing for other stories unless compensated for).
It was listed as 'Evil' because the short names in the first column are used, if you think that's an unfortunate short name (a view point I could agree with; the short names in general could stand to be reworked somewhat) then change the short name everywhere. Of course reading Evil Christmas fist is not strictly necessary, if it was it would have been listed in bold. The criteria for normal (non-bold) inclusion are at least one of: 1. Reading the other story first enhances understanding and/or enjoying the story. 2. Reading the other story later will impede enjoyment (spoilers).
In this case the justification is enjoyment, because knowing Dr. Diabolik changes the end form a in comparison anti-climatic (both compared to the build up up to that point and the alternative) throw in of a really cheesy villain name to a chilling cliffhanger. Of course enjoyment is subjective (after all some people don't care about spoilers or even prefer to read spoilers first) so the underlying principle would be more something like "there's a reasonable argument a significant fraction of readers would have their enjoyment enhanced", which would be fulfilled in spades, more than for many of the other non-bold inclusions.
But that's for form the only reason for listing evil christmas for chapter 2. If it wasn't listed there would be no way you could get around listing Bad Seeds for chapter 3, otherwise you wouldn't know who Jadis, Cheese et al are at first (understanding), and once you worked it out Bad Seeds would be pretty significantly spoiled. Introducing characters with stories that were designed to introduce them is one of the main reasons for starting this in the first place. If Bad Seeds neither directly nor indirectly listed for chapter 3 you could as well scrap the list completely.
But chapter 3 is a horrible place to have requirements for because of the cliffhanger, and Bad Seeds in turn requires Sara 2, which requires a load of Merry stories and other things which have their own requirements, so you'd either have to ignore the recommendation (non-bold after all) or be stuck spending possibly months reading millions of words in the middle of a huge cliffhanger. In this case most would probably choose to ignore, but so much better to already have read Bad Seeds before getting to the cliffhanger in the first place, either before even starting on silverlinings or after chapter 1 which stands on its own. There is no particular unique justification for listing it for chapter 1 specifically, but Dr. Diabolik would present such for chapter 2.
There is the additional problem of the MCO abduction issue (touched in chapters 1, 3 and 4). I originally considered listing seraphim 1 for chapter 1 because some overlap in the abducted characters mentioned (I don't remember the details, I looked up tons of such things for this list), but that would have been the most feeble mention in the whole list so I decided against it. Using Evil Chistmas kills two (three?) birds with one stone because it has seraphim 1 and bad seeds as requirements itself. If you wanted you could instead list it for chapter 1 already, but the justification would be less direct.
So to sum it up the alternatives are:
- to change it back to the way it was
- to list it for chapter 1 instead
- to add a clearly inferior listing for Bad Seeds somewhere
- to deliberately leave leave a huge hole in the whole system that completely destroys any consistency the list might have had without trying to fix it
- to find some alternative consistent system more to your taste, achieve consensus that this new system should replace the current one, and invest some significant fraction of the huge amount of work I invested into the current system to change the list to that system.
4. pretty much amounts to vandalism. You are welcome to try 5., but I wouldn't expect results all that soon and since 1. seems to be the best option for now so I'm changing it back until you are finished with 5., if you prefer 2. please feel free to change it to that instead. Addiab 21:35, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
Let's take this issue to the forum. Thanks.XaltatunOfAcheron 00:28, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
If I'm sufficiently bored, I'll also try compiling word counts for the stories posted in the forums - although that will be slightly trickier as I'll have to grab the count for each post and add them together (since the forum post header information, e.g. username, number of posts, date joined etc., will artificially inflate the count).
Mittfh 09:36, April 9, 2012 (UTC)
Update: June 2014
- Create a blank bookmark
- Paste in this code:
- Navigate to the story page
- Select All (Ctrl + A)
- Click the Bookmarklet and note down the word count.
While this is a humerous contention, and Sleethr's Whisper stories are fun, this is a list of Canon stories, Whisper is Fanfic, as I am sure you are aware.Isodecan (talk) 17:44, December 26, 2012 (UTC)
I am aware of that, but that is why I am asking "which section" as you have here fanfiction section as well (in case you´ve forgotten or didn´t bother to look). I won´t even remind you, that Whisper is too good to be only fanfic anymore. Whisper deserves to be canon. 18.104.22.168 19:10, December 26, 2012 (UTC)
Not our call. It's the Canon Cabal's call. As for the ONLY fanfic that has been listed, that is a very special case. Brandy was invited to be a canon author very early on, but she declined. Instead, she wrote a fanfic. Normally, that should leave the story out of this list, because enerally speaking, including fanfics in the wiki would be a) too much work (too many fanfics), when we barely can keep up with canon stories; b) confusing for the readers. But as I said, this is a special case. The canon authors decided to host her story in the main archive. No other fanfic has this level of canon endorsement. Not Flashback, not Ma'at, not Whisper, not Tansy, not Mezzo, not Ponygirl. So, the maintainers of the wiki debated the issue way back then, in the appropriate forum thread, and decided that opening this single exception for the "no fanfics" rule would on the whole do more good than ill: readers who found the story in the story archive would be able to find more info about it (including the fact that it's a fanfic) on the wiki, but this level of endorsement is so rare that it wouldn't disrupt the wiki. I mean, there was *one* *single* event in what, almost ten years?
If and when another fanfic reaches a similar level of endorsement by the canon authors, we will include it. It hasn't happened so far. I very much doubt that it will ever happen. --Sir Lee (talk) 23:52, December 26, 2012 (UTC)
--> June 27th, 2014 - Funnily enough, the Canon
Cabal Disclaimer: There Is No Canon Cabal have (just) decided it is worthy of Canonification. However, as Sleethr now has to do some tweaking to fit it into canon continuity, it may take several months before it's published on the main page. Whereupon we'll have fun fitting it into the ever-expanding timeline... Mittfh (talk) 22:19, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
Stories Page on Main Site
I noticed that the Stories page on the main site is missing a number of the stories that are listed here. Am I just blind or is there a reason for this?
22.214.171.124 22:20, June 1, 2014 (UTC)
Until about a week ago, we were having another round of problems with adding / editing pretty much anything on the main Crystal Hall server. As a result, the Stories page on the main site hasn't been kept up to date. Until the authors with web access have updated it, treat this fan wiki's List of Canon Stories as definitive.
Key to #
Several of the stories have a pound sign '#' in one or more of the dates columns, but I can't find anything in the introductory material that explains what that symbol means in this context. Trismegistus Shandy (talk) 14:30, February 8, 2015 (UTC)
Tennyo Goes to Hell & Anecdotal Antidote Apocalypse
"Tennyo Goes to Hell" may not be explicitly dated from inside the story itself, but it's quite clear from the end that the entire story happened during the span of 1 hour in terms of the "real universe", right at the end of "Anecdotal Antidote Apocalypse" part 1 -- that is, about December 9. By the way, AAA1 is listed as going to December 1 to December 6, but I think it should be a bit longer. Let's see:
- Begins in December 1;
- Then there's a scene "nearly a week" later -- that would be 5 or 6 days later, so December 6 or 7;
- Then breakfast the following day (Dec 7 or 8)
- Then another scene "the morning after" (Dec 8 or 9)
- Then (after a flashback) another scene "the following morning" (Dec 9 or 10).
I'm not sure that "Tennyo Goes to Hell" takes place within a single hour -- it seems from the epilogue like it could be several hours after the end of AAA1. But yes, it either takes place the same night as the end of AAA1 (whatever day that is), or early hours of the following day (still nighttime). -- Trismegistus Shandy (talk) 02:49, February 14, 2015 (UTC)
Direct quote from the epilogue of "Tennyo Goes to Hell":
- "Sit down, everyone," Sara commanded. "A lot has happened." She drew in a breath, simply for effect, and launched into it. "A little more than an hour ago, I was ambushed..."
Trials of a Warrior and Whilst Any Speaks
Trials of a Warrior part 4 refers to major events in Fey's life that apparently happened in Whilst Any Speaks. (I haven't read the latter yet and don't know the details, but I ran across some spoilers in a forum thread, and more, perhaps, in "Trials".) There should be some kind of dependency marking between "Trial" and "Whilst" but I'm not sure how; mark chapter 4 of "Trials" as depending on some suitable chapter of "Whilst", or just mark the first chapter of "Trials" as depending on "Whilst" as a whole?" -- Trismegistus Shandy (talk) 02:49, February 14, 2015 (UTC)
Whilst Any Speaks Should probably be read before Trials of a Warrior due to spoilers, even though they both happen congruently, the event actually takes place in WAS Chapter Four.
- I've added that dependency in the "Read First" column for "Trials of a Warrior" part 1. Also, I marked "Whilst Any Speak" as depending upon "The Kodiak in Winter" and "A Cold Plate of Vengeance".
- Perhaps the second Kayda story should have a timeline tag of "A" for academy instead of "K" for Kayla, since it refers to events of "Whilst" in a major way and in smaller ways to "Ayla and the Mad Scientist" and a number of other academy stories. -- Trismegistus Shandy (talk) 19:06, February 15, 2015 (UTC)
Charge 1 & Charge 2
There was some disagreement, in the forum thread on Charge 1, whether the recommended reading order should be Charge 2 first then Charge 1, or Charge 1 first. (Charge 1 takes place first but was written and published later.) Kristin Darken argued for publication order, and one or two others for chronological order. I am ambivalent about it myself.
Also, is there a particular reason why the abbreviation for "The Big Idea" is "Reap01" instead of something intuitive like "Reach" or "Reach 1"? Plenty of story title abbreviations are longer than that. "Reach 1" would make sense if we knew or suspected that Bek had more stories about Reach planned. -- Trismegistus Shandy (talk) 04:40, February 16, 2015 (UTC)
North to Atlantis
North to Atlantis is listed as "Loophole 6", but I would argue that it's more "Kodiak 2" (with "The Kodiak in Winter" being Kodiak 1). Yes, it HEAVILY crosses over with the Loophole stories, but it's Kodiak-focused, not Loophole-focused. It's a similar situation with the Molly stories -- they are written by the same author as Chou's stories, they interact strongly with Chou's stories, but they are Molly's, not Chou's.--Sir Lee (talk) 02:30, March 7, 2015 (UTC)